Ken Bowie Lecture on the Applegate-Lassen Trail

Ken Bowie Lecture on the Applegate-Lassen Trail

Applegate-Lassen Trail

A recorded presentation

Ken Bowie, Churchill County Museum Association

Churchill County Museum Association

Ca. 1990

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English

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42:13

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Ken Bowie Lecture – Applegate Lassen Trail
Transcribed by Raeburn Sottile.
Exact date unknown, but likely part of a lecture series done at the Museum, probably during the late 1980s or possibly 1990s. This was not part of the Churchill County Oral History project, but was digitized alongside the oral history project tapes.
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of the interviewer and interviewee and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Churchill County Museum or any of its employees.
BOWIE: Let's see, good evening. my name is Ken Bowie, I've been asked by Mrs. Cormitt [?] to talk to you tonight on the Applegate-Lassen Trail. So, um, you just gotta remember I'm an old retired bricklayer. I'll kinda fumble, make a few mistakes, well, sure I won't get everything. Applegate-Lassen trail takes off right here along Imlay. This'll be the one, this is the Humboldt trail. I just drew this just to show you where it takes off. Now, the Applegate trail was founded by Jesse Applegate. In 1846, on June the 20th of that year, he and his brother, Lindsay, and a party of men total 15 in all left the Willamette Valley [Oregon] to find a less dangerous route into Oregon. The old Oregon trail went down the Snake [River] and the Columbia, and then through The Dalles. When they reached The Dalles they either had to float their wagons down the Columbia on rafts or leave them! And it was quite dangerous in those days, there was a lot of rapids and stuff, so you can see the eastern people didn't particularly care for that sort of thing. So they had to find a better route, something to get more people in. Seemed to me like someone wanted to make a little bit of money selling property up there. So it was best to find a way so more people could come safely into Oregon. This is what Applegate had in mind when he left the Willamette Valley.
BOWIE: They were all riding good horses, good as they could get. So in 18 days they came to Goose Lake Basin [Oregon], which would be off this map but be over in here. At July the 9th they crossed the Warner Mountains and came into Surprise Valley, which is just across the [Nevada-California] border. But quite often, you know, in that thing they had to double back to find a better route, you know they didn't have the advantage like we have of four-wheel drive and planes and stuff like that. So it did take them 18 days to get that far, but this would be expected. On July the 10th they went through High Rock Canyon and were following John Fremont's trail through the desert. They reached the Black Rock on July the 11th. Here they rested until the 14th of July, and Jesse's brother is the one who gave the desert its name, the Black Rock. And for any of you who have never seen that thing, you go to Gerlach and go north a little ways, you won't miss it. It's just a great big old black ugly rock sitting right on the south end of the Black Rock range. On your left you have the Calico range – as you're looking North – and on the right you have the Jackson range. I'll guarantee you know you're somewhere when you get there.
BOWIE: So on the 14th of July, the party split in two groups and started to move towards the Humboldt River. They had to link the Humboldt up to the Black Rock. They were home free when they get to the Black Rock. It was called Mary's river in those days. Lindsay Applegate, Jesse's brother, was with the group that went southeast across the flat, and after riding about 15 miles on a hot day they noticed rabbit trails all leading in one direction. And so they and their horses were in desperate need of water about that time. And they followed it and up on the little ledge was a little green mound there with a little water percolating out of it. So they kinda dug it down a little bit and made a little basin out of it and by the next morning they and their horses had all the water they needed. So that was also named by Lindsay Applegate, it was called Rabbit Hole Springs. Of course today, you see it [inaudible]. This left them about 30 miles from the Humboldt River. That's far too great a distance for a wagon train to travel between water holes, so they set out to find another spring between the two to link it up. During the next several days, neither party could find adequate water that would connect Rabbit Hole Springs to the Humboldt. So they continued up the river way down in here [?] So they continued up the river until they came to a large meadow with plenty of grass. This place is near the present site of Imlay, that's right here, it would later be known as Lassens Meadows. After arriving there they noticed a lone mountain pass to the West of them. Right in here. So they sent two men out the following morning to explore the possibility of a route through this pass. And they came back the next evening with good news. There was a spring about 15 miles to the west of them, just about half way, and half way to Rabbit Hole Springs. This meant that the mew route to Oregon was assured. They were alright. This spring is called Antelope Springs.
BOWIE: So during the rest of 1846 and the following two years, Emigrants traveled this route with ease. Then came 1849, and thousands of people went on the Applegate trail as a shortcut to California gold fields. That was thanks to Peter Lassen. It quickly became known as a death route. This trail was never meant to accommodate that many people. Four or five hundred, maybe, during the travelling season, but never the ten or eleven thousand that supposedly went across in 1849. That was the only year it took a whole bunch like that. It didn't take long before cholera, mountain fever, was taking a fearful toll. Lack of water was killing the animals, and shortly after that the entire trail was just swamped with dead and decaying animals, some dying right in the water. Human graves were everywhere. I've read in several places that Peter Lassen was responsible for this and I believe it. Lassen was a blacksmith by trade, and he was born in Denmark. He came to this country, arrived in California, and was given a grant of land in northern Sacramento valley, near the town of V-I-N-A that's "Vy-na" or "Vee-na." Anybody know for sure? It's on highway 99, just about 25 miles Northwest of Chico, anyway that's where it is, we'll call it "Vee-na." On Deer Creek. He hoped to steer people to his ranch to have them settle there, but for a price of course. So in 1847, he traveled east and in 1848 he served as a guide to a party of 10 or 12 wagons down to California. He knew of the Applegate trail, but had never explored it. That's where the problem was. But when he came to the cutoff at the [Lassen] Meadows, he took the righthand fork that led him right out into the Black Rock Desert and on, where he hoped to take this bunch to his property in California. They stayed on the Applegate trail until they came to Goose Lake. Then he turned south towards his ranch over terrain that was in places almost impassable. If he'd have kept going at Goose Lake, that's the Oregon trail, that goes out. It's not the Lassen trail until he turned south on Goose Lake. He didn't believe that many – that some deaths would have occurred, had it not been for a party of men from Oregon that were on their way to the gold field. They gave them a hand getting their wagons out. They were in bad shape. They were stuck in canyons they were… Thanks to Lassen and some of his men, some eastern newspaper carried this information, that is that it was a shortcut to California and there was plenty of grass and water and so forth. So no wonder that mid-august of '49 many trains turned off the Humboldt trail to go on the Applegate-Lassen trial. And as more and more came, the trail quickly became overloaded, and the death march began.
BOWIE: In the beginning, these immigrants first assembled in the Midwest, along the Missouri river in a place like old Fort Kearney, Independence, Council Bluffs, St. Joseph, places like that. And sometime in April, or whenever the grass started to come on, that's so their cattle and stuff had something to eat. Why then they started West, took off to California. And many of them were buried along the way. After months of travel, approximately four months, they reached the Applegate turn off. Here many arguments or discussions were carried out. Some want to take the new route because of the horror stories connected with the Humboldt and Carson route. They knew the tragic Donner ordeal and the terrible crossing of the dreaded 40-mile desert. [laughing] And I'm sure all of you have been out there. Also the hardships they when they went up and over the Sierra Nevadas. The grand old days [laughter] So many wanted to take the new route. Only a few took it until a famous wagon master followed Lassen's trail, and then most of the wagons that followed behind him also turned off to the right. He – I don't know the guy's name, but I saw that in a couple of the… the diaries said a famous wagon master, so [chuckles] that must be it. Most of the wagons that followed him also turned off to the right and headed to Antelope Springs. They found little grass, although they had been told that there was plenty of grass and water. Only the first wagons – the very first ones in there – found grass or water at all. And as most of you know, no rancher in his right mind would run ten or twenty thousand head of cows 45 miles across the desert in the middle of summer without providing water and feed for them, but that's what these people had to do. I name ten or twenty thousand because I'm guessing. It's said that about ten or eleven thousand people went through there in 1849, so I'd guess there are at least two animals for every person, I would imagine. You know, but that can be argued quite a bit. It might have been more. And though the number of animals thinned down quickly, as you can well imagine, you wouldn't take a herd through there [?]
WOMAN: I would [laughter] I'm not real smart! [laughter]
BOWIE: Although some of the wagons turned back after finding no grass or water at Antelope Springs, almost all kept going towards Rabbit Hole. About fifteen- Roughly fifteen, maybe eighteen miles further. When they arrived there, they found very little water. Some men would dip it up with cups, if they could get through the crowd. Later, this was dug out and the water flow increased, but that soon became clogged with dead animals. They were in tough shape. They'd get in there and just fall right in [inaudible]. And not very many men strong enough to pull them out. Then there was no grass. The oxen and the horses had been without grass or water for two days, except for those who brought some with them from Lassen Meadows. Some of them would just fill everything they had with water and get all the grass they could. They were kinda looking ahead. Very few were that farsighted. They'd been told that water and grass was plentiful. And again, some of the wagons turned back towards the Humboldt River, but not many. You can go up on a little rise in front of Rabbit Hole Springs and see the black rock sitting out. It doesn't look very far, but it's about fifteen of the roughest miles you ever want to travel. If you were on foot with little to no water on a hot August day, may the good lord save you from that. I've been on that thing many times. I spend anywhere from 1-3 months each year on the Black Rock Desert, but I go out there with a 4 wheel drive ¾ ton pickup with a special engine, and a CV radio, 10 gallons of water at least, 1 week's supply of food, axe, knife, matches, handyman jack, planks, cable, flashlight, [inaudible] just too much stuff in my opinion. Shotguns and rifles. Dual batteries and dual fuel pumps on my truck, if one fails I have the other. I carry spare parts and a well-stocked toolbox. Also, my 28 foot 5th wheel travel trailer is always somewhere close by on the desert. [Laughing] I can walk it if I have to. However, the immigrants had none of that when they stared across that flat stretch of land. Most felt they had reached the point of no return. Indeed most of them had. They were in rough shape, you know, when they got to there. People were weak, the wagons were about ready to break down, the oxen were just about ready to kick it. So it was cross or die. Especially for the animals. Travelers in later years said it looked like a defeated army had been there. Abandoned wagons everywhere. Chains, equipment, and utensils of every sort scattered all over. And so many dead animals you couldn't count them. Some of the thirst-crazed animals would stampede at the sight of a mirage. They would think it was water and go for it until they dropped dead. Many did this. And I was badly fooled by one myself! The people would sometimes have to cut the wagons in half and make a cart out of them. And if they had one or two animals left, then they'd put the necessities on there and go. They were interested in saving their lives. They didn't worry about the other stuff.
BOWIE: After crossing the flat from Rabbit Hole to the Black Rock, things begin to get somewhat better. The first water is up at that big Black Rock Hot Springs. I don't know, I guess some of you… see, and it's not as big now as it was in those days according to the… But this is terrible stuff, terrible water. But having none for so long, anything would do. Also, if you go down below the spring, it's cool enough to go down in and take a bath - I've done this several times. Take a shovel if you want to clear out a little spot and wait ten minutes it'll clear out. That'd really be the first that I thought. [?] There was also some grass, not much. At this time, some of the wagon trains went to Double Hot Springs, which is about six miles north of the Black Rock. Fair grass, but again the water is pretty nasty. And you can do the same thing there, you can go on down below and, you know, dig yourself out a bathtub. Feels good on a real hot day. Some went a few miles across the desert to Donnelly Creek where the water is very good, also plenty of grass. Now you gotta go completely across the desert. I have some pictures here I'll pass around pretty soon. But the water there is absolutely nice. Well, quite frankly it's better than Fallon water. [Laughter] They would stay in these places until they and their animals gained strength. Although not many stayed at the Black Rock Springs. Not only was the water terrible and there was very little grass, it was also very congested. Some stories say at least 200 wagons were there at all times, day and night. Wagons coming, wagons going, children crying, dogs barking, men cursing and yelling at the animals. Anyway, between double hot springs and Donnelly Creek – of course, you know how that would go, right? Cursing at the animals? [laughter] Anyway, between double hot springs and Donnelly Creek, what was left made it about 18 miles to what is now known as Soldier Meadows, where grass and water was plentiful and first class. The only real hardship they had between Double Hot Springs and Soldier Meadows was the deep sand. You had this all, all the way up, especially on the west side, and not very many wagons stayed over on the west side, they came back over on the east side. There was a trail, I've walked it myself, that went right across there. A lot of people think that the road you follow with a four-wheel drive is the trail. It hits very little of it.
AUDIENCE: [Inaudible]
BOWIE: No, because the wagons were only three and a half feet wide by eight or nine foot long, most of them. Some of them tried to make it across in these Hollywood-type things, but they didn't- I don't think they made it to Nevada. Anyway, not many stayed on that side. I was walking up that thing one day, where I'm talking to you about, it was gray all over. I have some pictures here. And I fell in something like a gopher hole. Right into about here. Stepped back to see it, my goodness, a gopher hole is supposed to have a hole there, there's no hole! So I stuck my hand down in the sand and came out with little rib bones and arm bones and finally a skull. I'm not one for digging in graves, but uh… that was kinda scary! So I took a picture of it and I have that here also, and then I looked out and there were some adult bones there. I thought they were, I'm not a doctor, you know, and I know for sure there were horse or ox bones or something like that and a spear is right in the middle. So you kinda wonder what in the world went on there! See, that the baby was still buried yet the adult bones were scattered all over the place. It could be that they were maybe wiped out by the Indians right there – the Indians were starting to get troublesome by that time – And maybe another wagon came along and buried the whole bunch of them once the coyotes started- I can't tell. But my understanding is maybe a very young child – This was a young child because the skull was still split, and you know they stay that way until about a year old. Isn't that about it? Something like that? Any of you know? You know, the skulls? I heard that they do. And I understand that a young child would have no scent to an animal, like a small faun. You know the coyotes can't smell them. The mother would put them in the brush there, and that goes on for probably 3-6 months. Maybe it's the same thing with that baby. But anyway, I sat down in the sand there, it was late in the evening. My pickup was down about two miles. I was thinking about it and went to sleep. [laughter] And I woke up it was pitch dark, just like it is out here. No moon. So I thought "my goodness, here I am two, two and a half miles from my pickup, didn't know *exactly* where it was, and you can't follow the trail at night, not very well. And then I got to thinking "God, I got it easy compared to what those people had! If necessary, I'll just lay right there on the sand and sleep it off until the sun comes up. But I thought I'd poke on towards the truck. And I did make it after a while. You know, you go a little while. Best thing not to get too excited, but I was in no danger whatsoever. All I'd have to do is curl up and sleep, it wouldn't bother me [inaudible].
BOWIE: Now they were getting into Indian Country. While the trains were there, the Indians would run off some of their cattle. The Indians were pretty heavy around Soldier Meadows and then further. And, let's face it, they were only protecting their own country, their wives and children and everything. So they had to put guards out each night. And what some of the Indians would do, they'd come in at night, stick an arrow into a horse or a cattle of some sort, and the next morning they'd be sick. They wouldn't be dead, but the emigrants would have to leave them. Then the Indians could get them. And I thought that was pretty smart, so…
BOWIE: Now, the trail went across Soldier Meadows wherever it could. In a dry year, they could turn west and head up towards Fly Canyon. They could turn west right down, right down, sure, just go right around that little hill that's there. But in a wet year, you've gotta go way up towards where Soldier Meadow Ranch is now, go around that way. I had a picture somewhere of where they had filled a little creek with rocks, you know, so they could get across the creek. I took a picture and I can't find it. I don't know where it is. They had to go further north and turn. I also found wagon parts there by using a metal detector, that place that place I'm talking about. As they turned west, they went up a long hill that lead to Fly Canyon. There they had to let their wagons down via rope, and I have some pictures of that also. I went over that one time with a metal detector, and I found – The first time I was up there there's wagon boards and stuff down in the bottom, but the only thing I found this last time was a 31-caliber pistol that was made out of brass. I wouldn't part with it for anything. But anyway, they had to let their wagons down that thing via rope. And you can still see the marks in the rocks, I believe it must be, because they're round and very long. This is also the same canyon that John Freemont spent New Year's Eve 1843. That's an awful place [laughter] to spend New Year's Eve, believe you me! After a few more miles they came to the awesome High Rock Canyon. This entire route is about 20 miles in length. But it was a godsend to those people. If High Rock wasn't there, their journey would have been much more difficult. I don't know what they would have… As it was, it was tough enough. I have problems going through it now with a 4-wheel drive. One of the first things that you see would be a cave on the right. This is a little ways in, and a few of the emigrants wrote their names, date, where they were from on the rock. Have any of you been up there? Well, it's quite interesting.
MAN: It is!
BOWIE: You've seen that on that of rocks. [?] And I have pictures of this also, a few modern idiots shot and hit some of those things, if you can imagine anyone doing that. I can't understand that type. Not many of that type, but they give all of us who hunt a bad image, and they do. You get lumped in, "those hunters." It'll be that one particular one. I've never been out with a guy that did that. [Long pause] As they… they had to stay, as they continued on the way, they had to stay mostly in the stream bed. And when they got to the other end of the canyon the trail was very bad for a few miles. The trail very quickly became full of broken wagons and dead animals. Today the road goes around this rough spot. Bet you they could have used a bull dozer over that. Finally, they were out of the Canyon where they went past the Steven's Camp and on past the Massacre ranch. After passing the Massacre Ranch, the trail turned west, until it went straight through present-day Vya [Nevada] and ran close to the road that leads to Cedarville, California, you know, that one that goes on up the hill and zig-zags around. After it gets across the California border it turns north for a little ways, then across the upper part of the lake that's dry… It's kind of a dry lake [Presumably Upper Alkali Lake]. It's got a little water in it sometimes in the lower end, but the upper end it's dry and that's where you'd zip up there and go back. And then they went up over Fandango Pass. And that was a pretty good little pool. They lost a few more animals and wagons there. Mainly because everyone and everything was so beat up and used up by this time that it was easy for something to break or someone to die. Shortly after crossing Fandango Pass they came to Goose Lake. And those going to Oregon continued on. And those going to Lassen Ranch or otherwise turned south. To go to Lassen's ranch was about 150 very rough miles. And then here, I say again, Vina is about 25 miles Northwest of Chico, California on Highway 99. Many emigrants had to abandon their wagons on this part of the trail because it was so rough. Many more would have lost their lives if the California authorities had not sent out rescue parties to help them along. The Lassen death route really added about 200 miles to this, and his bounty would be assured. And that's if you go to the gold fields. But even those days, some people were a sucker for a slick-talking con man.
BOWIE: Lassen moved to Honey Lake Valley in 1854. And in 1859, while on a prospector trip with two other men, Ed Clapper and a man named L. Wyatt – The reason I wrote L is because I couldn't pronounce his first name [ed. Other sources name him as Americus Wyat] – Lassen and Clapper were killed, but Wyatt escaped. Indians were blamed for it, of course, but there is overwhelming evidence that indicates white men killed them. Since none of his provisions was taken, neither was a half keg of booze, had that there, lots of food, guns, and that sort of things and the Indians, if they'd killed him, would have taken all that. Most white men would too. I met a very old man 1976 in Gerlach that told me that his grandfather worked for Lassen and that Lassen was a dedicated woman chaser. He didn't care whose woman or wife it was [laughter]. It was very plain that this old man didn't care for Lassen. He said several times that his grandfather told him Lassen was no good and deserved to be shot. Now you can't get much more positive than that.
BOWIE: That's just about it on this, but I just want to say whenever any of you travel up there, you don't wanna go by yourself like I do. I go by myself because I can't find people to- who want to go with me, let's put it that way. I don't like to wait until 8 in the morning to go to the Black Rock Desert. I like to get going then if you're not having a good time you get back home and do something else the whole day, you haven't wasted the whole thing, whereas if you start at 8 or 9 o'clock, you get up there and you figure you're not having fun, why the day is gone! Two days at once. But you wanna make sure you have plenty of water with you. And be real careful of blowing a radiator hose, you know, I've seen that quite often. I carry strips of innertube and duck tape with me, see, and I've patched them up twice with that. Yeah, I have. Just to get you off the desert.
WOMAN: Sounds like my husband- Duct tape!
BOWIE: You know, Duck tape, you know what I mean.
WOMAN: Yeah.
BOWIE: You know, that wide stuff-
WOMAN: Silver, silver.
BOWIE: Huh?
WOMAN: That silver stuff.
BOWIE: Yeah, that silver stuff. And you can wrap the rubber around there, see, and then take the tape and go around. Fill 'er up and it'll get you out of there. I've done it twice to other people. Ran into one bunch one time and two guys- Drunk, they were drunk. And they had plenty of beer, not a drop of water. [Laughter] And their radiator was… Their hose was busted, so I wound them up, I says "I'll be coming back in about 5 hours, I live right down there towards Gerloch. And I'll catch you if you don't get off." But I never did see them. [Laughs] I must have sobered them up, I really did. [Laughter] But I get a kick out of, you know, going along the trail and just seeing the things. I've stood on graves, and you can see others, you know. There's just that many. Some of the counts find that 10% of the people died in 1849. That's a lot of people. And I kind of believe it with all the graves. And as I said before, most of those wagons- The trail sometimes, when it leaves the 4 wheel drive path, it really looks like a ditch because the wagons were only 3 and a half feet wide, so when they went along there they dug it in and then over the years, it kinda slid in, so it really truly looks like a ditch. And that time that I said I was fooled by a mirage… what was it '80 or '81 when we had so much water around? Let's just say it was '80. Well in '81 I went up there early in the spring and it was still pretty wet on the flat. But I didn't want to go up the soldier meadow route, you see, if you've been up there you know how tough that is. Without a 4th or 5th wheel travel trailer. And as I was going up the flat, why, I got about half way up and then all of a sudden there's a lake ahead, I thought "God, I gotta turn around and go back!" But the lake kept going. And as I got within a mile of the turnoff, it got bigger and it came closer to me, so… And it was wet under my wheels. It was wet. I was starting to bang mud into the wheel wells. [inaudible] So I got out and trotted [?] down the thing, and here this thing stayed about 50 yards ahead of me. I laughed about it then, got back in my pickup, and drove off. But I regretted to turn around after being within a mile of the upper end. And that's just what they can do to you. So any of you go up there just be careful! Travel in a group! Plenty of water and food and stuff with you. Have a good time, that's about it. Any questions of any kind you'd like answered?
WOMAN: You talk about all these creeks, and I knew all these creeks up in there, and you say you're going up Soldier Summit, now actually as you leave Gerlach, where is Soldier Summit from there?
BOWIE: Well, there's two ways to get there. You can go up the road. You know, when you leave Gerlach you're going north towards, let's say Cedarville and as you go around the turn the road forks. Take the righthand fork, see the righthand fork, and then if you can get across the desert, you go up about 2 or 3 miles and you'll see a little road, dirt road that leads out to the right, and it only goes about 30 yards, you're on the desert. And then what you do if you want to go to soldier meadows, just follow the trail. If there's no trail early in the year, to the left as you get up kind of draw a bead on the black rock, stay about 2 or 3 hundred yards off the shoreline because at that time of year it's kind of soft, but stay out and it's alright. And when you get up a little ways, you can see some pretty colored hills. Now, John Freemont, one of his men drew a picture there he called it Freemont's Castle, and you want to kind of aim to the left of that a little bit. You get up there about 27 miles and then you can get off [inaudible]. Actually, where I talk about you turn off on there, you can go up another 6 miles and then there's another road that leads on the desert. Those two and one more, that's the only ones on that side of the desert, on the west side. If you miss those, then you can go on out towards Double Hot and that thing, and then you've got a terrible little 18 miles, I mean that's terrible. We see 'em. We're sitting up there doing hunt and see [?], you know this pass, and we just see those guys coming out in the evening. And they were going across on the other side. They had missed the road, the turnoff. I'm goin across at night. You know, pulling my travel trailer, and I can drive by the terrain. I can see the mountains over there and I know exactly where I am. But I'll guarantee if you're not used to it you can't do it. You can't. Joe is a hermit, he's the guy I go up there and visit. And he's lived there for 21 years, and he can't get off that desert at night. He just pulls over to the side because some of them drunk cowboys come through at 100 miles and hour at night. And them Indian fellows will rip through something frightening. So you want to go over to the side there and just sleep until daylight. It's… just be careful, and go with people. Now another thing you want to do is when you're out on that desert, out on that flat, that's the way you get to soldier meadows. Watch in your rearview mirror. When you're not blowin' dust up be real careful, and when you hear that plop plop down under your car, gently make a right or a left hand turn, keep the power up, you know, because you're gonna be in serious difficulty real quick. Just keep right on around and go on back, because it's… another quarter of a mile it'll be too late. Once you start picking up that mud, and you've gotta be careful because I did it several times and you start to fishtail, and if you turn it too fast you're gonna go around and around and you can't get started. I was coming off of it one time, coming down, and I knew a big rainstorm was coming, and I could see it down heading towards Gerlach, and I had it up to about 75, 80 with my travel trailer on and it hit me just like a wall of water. But I could see that second turnoff that I told you about. And I thought "oh brother, I'm just drifting there," because the wheels were doing real good, it just turns to slop right now. [snaps fingers]. And if it had been another 10 or 15 yards more, I couldn't, but I did drift right up on the black rock. It's alright. I would've just turned the key off, locked it, you know, took they key out and gone back to my fifth wheel. Someday it's gonna dry up and I'll drive right out of that desert. [laughter] Doesn't bother me one bit, you know. We kinda have that attitude. You have to. What was that? Pardon?
MAN: [Inaudible]
BOWIE: Don't, man they go fast! There's always… If you get in trouble up there, especially now, somebody'll be able to help. But 10, 12, 14 years ago… I've been out there 12 days and never seen a person. Ol' Joe has lived there 21 years. He just lives off the land. Depends on kindhearted fellows like me to bring him his groceries and things like that [laughter] He loves cream soda. So if you ever go out on Willow Creek, bring Joe some cream soda and he'll be your friend for life.
MAN: Is he an Indian?
BOWIE: No. No, he's a white man. Yeah, he came from Oakland. He'll take anything after Oakland! [laughter].
WOMAN: Is Goose Lake in Nevada?
BOWIE: Pardon?
WOMAN: Is Goose Lake in Nevada?
BOWIE: No, no that's over in California.
WOMAN: Oh, California.
BOWIE: That's the turnoff. If you keep ahead you’re on the Oregon trail, the Applegate trail, and south is the Lassen Trail. And I don't… I don't think there's too much sign of it nowadays.
WOMAN: The question occurred to me is, these parties often had people to lead them.
BOWIE: Mmm-hmm
WOMAN: And so what, did those people that led them just turn around and go back the trail?
BOWIE: You mean later?
WOMAN: Uh-huh
BOWIE: Oh sure, sure. They'd go back and pick up another train. They made a living.
WOMAN: Was there very much traffic back and forth by other people on this trail?
BOWIE: Oh yes, yes. They- I've heard stories, coming down here, this wild, that there was up to 168,000 that came it. See, they came across- when the railroad went through, that thinned them down quite a bit. But still, they traveled that thing clear on up to the 1900s, you know!
WOMAN: I'm trying to figure out how young men, being he came around the horn to get to San Francisco from the East Coast, but then he went to Idaho where he met his bride.
BOWIE: Mm-hmm
WOMAN: And then they went over to Oregon, wound up in Lander [? Would be in Nevada if heard correctly] county eventually, but I was just trying to figure out what he was doing that he'd wind up in Idaho after he'd already…
BOWIE: I wonder if he didn't take a ship up to Portland [Oregon] or something like that, and then go down the Columbia that way. That would be an easy way to get there.
WOMAN: Uh-huh.
BOWIE: Yeah. We know that now. I don't know whether…
WOMAN: Yeah, well, I suppose that is a possibility because-
BOWIE: Go right straight down the trail, but he'd come off way, way up there, see, and I don't know. You can do that.
WOMAN: You said that Goose Lake was in California-Oregon?
BOWIE: Pardon?
WOMAN: Goose lake
BOWIE: Yes, it is. Yes, you bet. You bet. Part of it is right up on that Oregon border. It lays right up in here like this.
WOMAN: It's in Oregon and California so part of it is in California.
BOWIE: Mmm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I think a small portion of it is in Oregon.
WOMAN: One time they told a story that the wagon trains had gone across that lake when it had dried. And no one believed them because at that time the water came almost to Lake View [Oregon]. One time during a drought, they could see the tracks through it, but nobody would believe them for so many years.
BOWIE: You bet. All through these things, they don't say a thing about crossing the Quinn River. And even now, as dry as it is, it's kinda dangerous to be out there. See, the Quinn River comes down here and it dies right there in that large flat out of Gerlach.
WOMAN: Oh… When I flew over it was in, what '85 when everything was flooded?
BOWIE: '80.
WOMAN: No, it was later than that. Anyway-
BOWIE: Well, it could have been. Easy enough. They flood almost every winter.
WOMAN: I come through on up there, you know to the Black Rock at that time, and the Black Rock was covered in water.
BOWIE: Oh sure, it'll come right up to it.
WOMAN: And that was the year that Lovelock Valley was all flooded.
BOWIE: I thought that was…
WOMAN: We went on a chartered plane.
BOWIE: Still thought that was '80, '82… [overtalk]
WOMAN: It was later than that.
BOWIE: I thought it was [Overtalk]. I know Stillwater, I know [overtalk] was comin' right up there. But the Quinn River, that's a dangerous spot there, even to this day, because you have that crust on it, you see, but the river is soft underneath. You'd be goin' out there and boom, down you go. It is bad. Now, in '49 they never said a word! 1849, they never said a word. The wagons just went across, so it must have been drier than now. And that – just like you said – that could have easily been dry.
WOMAN: This was Goose Lake?
BOWIE: Yeah, Goose Lake could have been dry, you bet. But that, that must have been an all time dry year, you know. The way that just nothin' written about the Quinn River, because that's a bad one. As I say, as dry as it is now, it is dangerous.
MAN: Are you following the routes in there? When you're travelling up and through there?
BOWIE: You mean now?
MAN: Yes.
BOWIE: You can. You can. Let's see, up in the Black Rock there's a Soldier Meadow road that you can take that will go clear up there when the flat is flooded. The reason I go across the flat is I just like driving once I get going. You know there's no grass and no bumps, just nothing. You can rev it up to 80 and just sit there and go forever. Nothing to hit. But if it's flooded, then you've gotta take the Soldier Meadow road. You've gotta come right out of Gerlach and head towards Vya [Nevada] and you'll see it. You'll go around the curve and there'll be a little sign on the right that says "Soldier Meadows." The tipoff is when you get up on a hill you can see some ranches on a hot springs off to your right. I don't like to take that road because it's always bad. They got one guy up there, his name is P.J. Wyatt he runs a grader for the county. And he'll grade that thing to his property, he lives up in there a little ways. But old P.J., he won't help the rest of us out. [Laughter] So Black Rock Joe and I, we sometimes- I give Joe the gas, and then he takes a big old travel haul that he has and we took a big drag from the Soldier Meadow ranch, weighed about 6 tons, and that's the only way you can get out of there! He'll take it from his place down to the desert cutoff and out on the flat, and then come back, and when he comes back with it, I take off, you know, before it gets rough again. It can get downright interesting if you get caught out in a rainstorm, I could never get the trailer out.
[Tape ends abruptly]