Joseph "Bud" Hart Oral History
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Interview 2: 33:12
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Churchill County Oral History Project
an interview with
JOSEPH (BUD) HART
Fallon, Nevada
conducted by
ELEANOR AHERN
September 20, 1997
and
October 19, 1997
This interview was transcribed by Glenda Price; edited by Norma Morgan; final by Pat Baden; index by Gracie Viera; supervised by Myrl Nygren, Director of the Oral History Project, Churchill County Museum.
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of the interviewer and interviewee and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Churchill County Museum or any of its employees.
Preface
Bud Hart had first lived at what used to be Brown's Station at Carroll Summitt; then moved into Fallon. His description of how the family lived, and his school experiences in this remote area makes one appreciate the somewhat elegance of Fallon in that same era. His description of the living accommodations in a tepee of one Indian family on the Brown ranch is enlightening as is his description of the types of housing that accommodated the Indians near Fallon. His remembrances of the depression in the 30's gives one a greater appreciation of the difficulties experienced by most Fallonites at that time. Bud was one of the first young men in Fallon to leave high school to join the Navy in 1941 to go serve his country.
A life-time member of the Fallon Lions Club, Mr. Hart's organization helped to build a softball park, planted trees at both the cemetery and the new Arts Council Building, and helped to provide glasses to the needy.
Interview with Joseph (Bud) Hart
AHERN: This is Eleanor Ahern of the Churchill County Museum Oral History project interviewing Bud Hart at his home at 180 North Allen Street, Fallon, Nevada. The date is Saturday, September 20, 1997. The time is 10:57am. Good morning, Mr. Hart.
HART: Good morning.
AHERN: Could you, for the record, give me your full name?
HART: Joseph Harold Hart.
AHERN: And your birthday and birth place?
HART: Is twelve seventeen twenty-four [December 17, 1924] in Vincennes, Indiana.
AHERN: Tell me a little bit about your parents. Their full names and their birth dates.
HART: My dad's name was Joseph William Hart. When we came out here, I had a stepmother, her name was Lee. She was a twin. Her identical twin, was Jackie. My real mother was still in Indiana. My mother's maiden name was Edith Cochran, and she didn't come out to Nevada until 1958 or 1959.
AHERN: Your birth mother came out to Nevada about 1958 or 1959?
HART: Correct.
AHERN: But, your stepmother, what was her full name?
HART: Her maiden name was Jones? No, not Jones.
AHERN: But her first name was Lee?
HART: Was Lee. Leora. I don't remember what her maiden name is. I'd have to dig that up somewhere.
AHERN: Your parents came from Indiana. What brought them out to Nevada?
HART: I think mostly my dad's health, for one thing. He had to get away from the big city. That's why we came out here. We went to California, then we went to Ely. He knew some people here in Fallon and he came here to visit this friend of his, and we've been here ever since.
AHERN: Do you recall the friend's name?
HART: No, he was a reverend of the church at that time. I think his name was . . . I remember his wife's name was Mabel. I can't remember his name just offhand.
AHERN: Do you recall the church?
HART: No, I don't even recall that because I was quite small at that time.
AHERN: How old were you then?
HART: Six, I believe.
AHERN: Did you always go to school here in town in Fallon?
HART: Well, most of the time was spent here in Fallon. There was a brief period that we went to school up in the mountains at Carroll Summit; [U.S.Highway 50] Brown's Station.
AHERN: Exactly where is Carroll Summit?
HART: It's east of Fallon. Now you have to turn off to the old road going over Carroll Summit in order to get there.
AHERN: What county would Carroll Summit be in?
HART: It'd be Churchill.
AHERN: And so you went to school in a place called Brown's Station?
HART: Well, yeah. The Browns had a ranch there, and it was called in those days Brown's Station, and there was a state highway department for the old highway, so they had a little one room school, and about nine or ten kids went to school there.
AHERN: What was your father doing at Brown's Station?
HART: Well, we actually lived up on top of Carroll Summit, and it was nine miles from Brown's Station. Of course, we went to school there in a Model T Ford truck. He was working with a construction company building that road over Carroll Summit at the time. There was a little gas station there, as I recall. We had a cow and a horse, and we cut wood and hauled it into town and sold it in the winter.
AHERN: Who would have been your closest neighbors?
HART: At that time there was Campbell Creek which is a ranch about a mile or so below, east of Carroll Summit. Then we had one at Carroll Station which is a mile the other way. A mile west of Carroll Summit.
AHERN: The nearest neighbors were about a mile away.
HART: About a mile each way, yes, ma'am.
AHERN: Describe the house that you lived in. How many rooms?
HART: This house had a kitchen and I think it had one room that they called a bedroom and a small front room. We slept in a tent outside. I can remember that we had a big down blanket and a wood stove. Of course, we had no coal in those days.
AHERN: When you say "we," who is "we?"
HART: Our stepmother's brother was also with us, so he and I slept in the tent.
AHERN: What was your uncle's name?
HART: My stepmother's brother? His name was Joe Reed.
AHERN: Sounds like you were an only child?
HART: No, I had a sister [Geneva Hart, born 1922] and a brother [Jimmy Hart, born 1926] of who were still in Indiana when we came out here.
AHERN: How old were they?
HART: My brother was about a year or two younger, and my sister was about a year older than I.
AHERN: But, you are the only one who came out with your father?
HART: Right.
AHERN: Why just you?
HART: My dad took me, and my brother and sister were with my mother. Then my stepmother had her brother to take care of, so that's how we came out to Nevada.
AHERN: How old was he?
HART: I think he's about eight or nine months older than I am. Pretty close.
AHERN: What was the house made of, what kind of materials?
HART: It was a frame house. I don't remember quite. It wasn't the fanciest house in the world. We had a spring out in front. No water piped in, and wood and coal stove in the kitchen and also in the front room. I know we took baths in a metal tub in the kitchen. That's the one I backed into when I was getting out of the tub one day. (laughing)
AHERN: You were branded? (laughing) How did you get to school at Brown's Station?
HART: We had about a one-ton Model T Ford truck with no heater. It had what they called an old Ruckstell in it. It was just a gear. And no windows. Several times there was a foot to two foot of snow on the ground that we had to push aside so we could make it to school back and forth.
AHERN: Did your father drive you back and forth to school?
HART: Part of the time, but most of the time he was working on construction there. There was a fellow there--his name was Jack Kramer, and he was actually the owner of the station and the house, so he drove us back and forth to school, but it was cold and miserable! Oof! In those days twenty-five below zero was common.
AHERN: At the school, do you recall who the school teacher was?
HART: I can't remember her name, I'm sorry. But we had just one teacher.
AHERN: Did she live at the school?
HART: Yes. She lived in part of the school building.
AHERN: Did she live there year round?
HART: Yeah. I don't think she left in the summer even, but I couldn't say for sure but I think she was there year round.
AHERN: How many children did she teach?
HART: At one time we had several Indian kids, too, that lived right there on the Brown ranch. There was the two of us. I think around nine. Nine or ten all together, but there was no school buses in those days.
AHERN: The other children who came to the school, were they from the outlying areas, also?
HART: Most of them were right there. There may have been one or two from the outlying area later on, but when I was there, there was only the people that were right on the ranch and in that vicinity.
AHERN: Then I assume that they were the children of the ranch hands?
HART: Right. They had, as I recall, a tepee on the Brown ranch, and they had an adobe floor just like the Indians of long ago. Quite a large tepee, and then they had the rocks in a circle, and that's how they heated . . . They lived right there in that tepee.
AHERN: I imagine you must have been inside to know what it was like?
HART: Oh, yes.
AHERN: What was the material that covered it?
HART: It was made out of hides and stuff like that. It was quite tall. I would say, probably, twenty feet in the air and about twelve feet wide. Of course, everything was on the outside edges of it. It was quite interesting.
AHERN: Were there any decorations on the outside?
HART: As I recall, no.
AHERN: Just plain hides.
HART: Just hides, yes. Of course, they had the door opening. There was no door, but just a flap to keep the cold out.
AHERN: Was there an opening at the top?
HART: A small one about six, eight inches, like that, maybe a foot. All the heat and everything went up, too, but it kept them pretty warm in there. I was surprised.
AHERN: How many people lived in the tepee?
HART: Well, that I'm not certain. I know that there was three or four, probably. No real young children. There was the mother and the father and maybe three or four. Quite a few. I don't know where the rest of them lived. I can't remember.
AHERN: They didn't have any running water or anything like that, then?
HART: I think they might a had a pump to pump the water at Brown's Station. We had a spring and carried water. There was no running water in those days and no electricity, of course. Everything was by candle light or kerosene lamp.
AHERN: Describe the school house please. How many rooms?
HART: I believe it was only two rooms. One partitioned room. It's been so long I can't remember exactly even what the desks looked like. They weren't fancy, as I recall. If you watched The Little House on the Prairie, this was the house on the prairie. Just pert near exactly like that little house on the prairie they went to school in, and we didn't have that many children, so it didn't take a lot of furniture or anything. She taught everything herself. There was no specialized education.
AHERN: Since there was a range of ages in your class, how did she teach everything?
HART: It seemed as though she had time. The class was so small that she was able to take the time with each individual. We never stayed after school, but the questions that was asked, why, we were all pretty close to the same age, and we absorbed it pretty evenly. But it was a job for her.
AHERN: Describe your routine. When you got to school, what was the first thing you did?
HART: Well, it was always a little bit early, so we had time to throw snowballs at each other and what have you. We managed to get our playtime in.
AHERN: When she had everybody come in, what was the first thing you did when you got into the class?
HART: The first thing was that we immediately took our seats, and the discipline was quite severe. You sat down and you minded your own business. You didn't fool around. You were there to learn something. It was really quite nice, as I recall.
AHERN: Did she start the morning off with any pledges or anything?
HART: No, we didn't have any. It was about the, I think, probably, the sixth or seventh grade before they started that.
AHERN: So as soon as you got into class, you started your lessons immediately?
HART: Right. Within a few minutes.
AHERN: Did you get very many breaks?
HART: I think we had a small recess in the morning and one in the afternoon. Maybe fifteen or twenty minutes. Something like that. That hasn't changed much.
AHERN: What were your school hours?
HART: It seems to me like about four or five hours a day. I don't remember just how they were placed, but we had about two or three hours in the morning and maybe a couple of hours in the afternoon. Up there in the mountains, we had to get back home before it was evening because it was so cold. Soon as that sun went down at all it started getting real cold, so. We had nine miles to travel each way.
AHERN: Tell me about your school supplies.
HART: Boy, now that's something. I don't remember the pencils and the pens at all. There was nothing. I know we had those little old ink deals.
AHERN: Were they permanently in the desk, or just set on the desk?
HART: They were set on the desk. I don't think that came till later on that they had regular holes built for the ink wells.
AHERN: Did the teacher have a large black board to write the lessons on?
HART: Yes, she had. I think, it was about a six by four.
AHERN: Did they supply your notebooks, or did you have to supply your own?
HART: That I couldn't recall, either, because we didn't have very many. The material we had was just paper. No notebooks to speak of. I don't really know where they came from. They weren't supplied by the state, I'm sure.
AHERN: How did all the children get along?
HART: They got along pretty good considering. We became quite good friends through the years. Some of them are still living in Fallon here now. They have all these years. The Brown family, part of them live here in Fallon, also. We're quite good friends through the years. It was really quite an experience. I wasn't in that school very long because construction ended in a couple of years, so we moved back to Fallon.
AHERN: You went to school there for just . .
HART: I think a couple of years. In between a year and a half and two years. But it was an experience.
AHERN: Was it a good experience?
HART: Yes, it was. I think it was good. Much slower and everything. They had more time to spend with the kids. Of course, the Indian children they had quite a time because they really hadn't had any schooling hardly at all. She had quite a job with the whole bunch, but she did a good job.
AHERN: Was it mainly reading and writing?
HART: Reading and writing. That was the big thing. I don't think we had much arithmetic or anything until we got into the school system here. It was really nice.
AHERN: When the weather was nice in the spring, what kind of games did you play?
HART: I recall that one time we went trapping. We set a bunch of traps around a pine tree way up in what they call Sawmill Canyon. Quite a ways up from the Brown ranch, and we walked up there one Easter vacation. We had caught this bobcat, and he'd sprung eight traps of the nine, and the ninth one only had him by one claw. Of course, we didn't have a gun because we were too young and too small, so we just threw rocks (laughing) and then we started carrying that big cat down the hill. Seemed like we got punished a little for that. I don't think we were supposed to be carrying that cat down that hill, but in those days I think there was a bounty on them. There was quite a large amount of them. It was a pretty good-sized cat. I think it was little bit smaller than the one that's been running around here, but he was pretty good sized. That was an experience. (laughing)
AHERN: How old were you then?
HART: Guess we'd be about seven, maybe eight. I don't know. If he'd a ever got out of there, I know one thing. We'd of came down that mountain faster than we went up. (laughing)
AHERN: What did your mother do all day?
HART: I think there was always something to do there because when she run a house like she did up there, they made their own soap out of lye and all that stuff. It's quite a trick to making that. Then there's always sewing and getting in wood which we had to do when we got home. There's always something to do. Cook. She's a good cook.
AHERN: Where did your parents get their supplies from?
HART: From Fallon.
AHERN: Who got it for them?
HART: We had an old Dodge truck later on that we came to town with. We hauled wood with it. Hauled wood in and whatever we needed to go back. Supplies. We sold the wood, and was able to pay for the supplies that we needed for the house and clothes and what have you. We'd get the wood out of the mountains. We had a big buzz saw. We sawed it all up in lengths and stacked it, and then we loaded it into the truck and hauled it into town and sold it.
AHERN: How long did it take for you to go to town? To Fallon?
HART: I think that probably top speed in that old Dodge was about probably forty. Thirty-five to forty miles an hour. So, that would be my guess, about an hour and a half, two hours. Maybe longer. If you never had any trouble.
AHERN: Did your parents experience any trouble now and then making the trip to town?
HART: [chuckles] Just once that I wasn't with them, but my dad and them were coming to town, and he told my stepmother to check the tire. She stepped out before the car was completely stopped, and that created quite a bit of excitement there. Didn't hurt her, fortunately. Just skinned her a little. I think that was about the only time. However, during the construction period up there, Dad had bad times. A big boulder came rolling down the mountain. He was up on this big crane, and this fellow got hit with this big boulder while he was up undoing a cable, so Dad had to go up and get him down. I remember when he came in, he was pretty bad. Blood all over him and he was really skinned up. That big rock just mashed this one fellow up on that crane. [Dad] really felt bad about that. But, we had some good times, too. I think they outweighed the bad ones.
AHERN: What would you consider bad times?
HART: Oh, I think the cold and the weather was my biggest complaint.
AHERN: This was mainly in the winter?
HART: Yes, in the winter. In the spring, the road there was traveled quite a bit in the spring and summer, and then we had these little old gas pumps with the handles on them. You pumped up the gas and pumped it into the cars. As I recall, we had two.
AHERN: Where were these gas pumps?
HART: They were right across the street from our house. Across the road, I should say. The highway. Just made out of natural rock, stone, and we had a little oil and gas, and people driving to Austin and back and then tourists, too. They'd stop. We'd run over and offer them a glass of ice cold spring water. They really liked that.
AHERN: Who operated the gas pump?
HART: Well, whoever happened to be there. My stepmother part of the time and Jack Kramer. We were a little young, but we could pump it up. Pump the gas as far as that's concerned.
AHERN: When they collected the money, who did the money go to?
HART: Now, that you've got me. I know it wasn't us. I think Jack, Mr. Kramer got that money.
AHERN: Was there a bell or something when someone pulled up and no one was around?
HART: No, you just kind of watched for them. You can hear them in the snow when they pulled up there. You watched. Of course, at night we locked it up. You didn't have much traffic at night with these older cars years ago. They didn't want to venture out too far. Most of the traffic was in the spring and summer. The hunters. Now you had a few hunters came up periodically, but not very many. In those days, your animals were plenty.
AHERN: Did you and your father and your uncle supplement the food by hunting a lot of the animals?
HART: They did some. You didn't have to walk very far to find chukar, sagehen. Then there was a creek across the way that had quite a few fish in it in the summer. Mountain trout and that, so we had all of that. Then we had water cress for salad and then your fish. We did pretty good.
AHERN: Did your stepmother have any vegetable gardens and chickens?
HART: We had a few chickens at times, and we had our eggs. We didn't raise much vegetables or anything as I recall. I don't know where they got all the vegetables. I remember there was no place to keep anything. There was no refrigerators or anything.
AHERN: Wasn't there any type of root cellar?
HART: We had a root cellar out there, yeah. Made out of rock. It was buried. They did keep the meat and stuff like that in it pretty good, but not like today when you have a refrigerator.
AHERN: If there were no refrigerators, how did you preserve things that are perishable like meat? Was it cured? Dried?
HART: No, they didn't have the, you mean like jerky and all that stuff. They had some of that stuff. I don't know. I know there was one time in my childhood when they made a refrigerator out of just wire, chicken wire, and this excelsior, like shavings. They'd take a big bucket and put on top with a hole in it and drain that water down over the excelsior. Then the wind'd hit that and it'd keep that about thirty-five to forty degrees inside, so that's where they used to keep their butter and stuff like that that they made. We had a cow and milk.
AHERN: Mr. Hart, up at Brown's Station, were there a lot of Indian families living there? Was there an Indian colony?
HART: There was no colony.
AHERN: Or a reservation, rather?
HART: No. No reservation. Just on that particular ranch is the only ones. Now, like I say, there may have been a few come from other areas to school, but there was no colonies as we have today. No reservation type. This was just on an individual ranch. The girls had their hair combed down in their eyes, and I always wondered how they could see even to study because…
AHERN: Was there a reason for that?
HART: I don't know. I think that it was just kind of out where nobody knew anything else. The girls didn't wear makeup or anything. Of course, there wasn't any, but that's the way they . . . And clothes, of course, we never had modern clothes in those days. Levis or old overalls, but we all got along good together.
AHERN: What did the Indians do for their livelihood?
HART: Well, I don't know exactly what they did do on the ranch, but I'm sure they had their own work there to do. Some of them probably helped around when they did have some grass hay and what have you, and haying and stuff was all done manually. And then your cattle. They had quite a few cattle out there, and they worked with the cattle. As I recall, there was a state highway yard just about half a mile west of the ranch, and there was a married couple there. Their name was Coleman. It was George, and Nell was his wife's name. We used to put on school plays and what have you there. So it was kind of nice. I don't remember too much about the school plays. I remember they had a jack-in the-box, and I was the jack-in-the-box, and I popped up when I shouldn't have. I remember that. (laughing)
AHERN: Do you know if the Indians did any type of handicraft work?
HART: I'm sure they did up there 'cause everything that was in this tepee if there was anything out of the ordinary was Indian style in type. There is somebody here in Fallon that could probably tell you more about that than myself. Her name is Maybelle Steve. Also Jim Brown is another one that lives here, and his dad and mother had the Brown ranch. In fact, his brother still has that ranch out there.
AHERN: Going back to the tepee, you have obviously gone into. Where did they store their stuff? Did they have any books or anything?
HART: I don't recall. There was no shelves as I recall or anything. Just on the floor.
AHERN: Was it kind of a cluttered place?
HART: Well, it was a little bit, you know, but I guess maybe they're just like we are when they expected company, why, things changed. (laughing) It wasn't too bad. It was funny about the ground, though, once that fire in the winter got going real good, it heated the ground all the way around that adobe, and it stayed warm.
AHERN: Was the fire in the center and in a pit?
HART: It was in the center, yeah, and had a little dugout deal there, and, of course, that heated the whole area.
AHERN: And when they cooked, did they have like a pot hanging over the fire?
HART: I think they had something that they used. I was never invited for dinner. (laughing) We were never there at that time, I guess.
AHERN: The ground, did they cover it with any covering of mats or whatever?
HART: They had something there, and, of course, their blankets and stuff were different from ours, too. People today, I don't think, could live like that.
AHERN: And their bedding. Did they have it on a little platform?
HART: Just right on the ground, I think, more than anything. There was always something there to put it on like some kind of a skin. I'm just gettin' shots and flashes 'cause we were pretty small at that time. I don't recall too much about it, but I remember the size of it. It was quite big. But they seemed pretty comfortable in there. I think people today would have a hard time getting up and down (laughing) after laying there all night.
AHERN: Now, you mentioned that your dad's job working on construction ended within about a couple of years. What happened after that?
HART: We moved back to Fallon shortly after that.
AHERN: What was the address in Fallon when you came back?
HART: We lived on Mr. Getto's place, I think, out here by the airport. I think that was one of the first places in that area that we moved and walked to school.
AHERN: Which school was that?
HART: Well, I went to Oats Park. They used to have a school right across from the Baptist Church. A big two-story red brick school.
AHERN: Where's the Baptist Church?
HART: Not the Baptist. The Methodist. I'm sorry. It's on Stillwater Avenue, and it was right across from the Methodist Church.
AHERN: What was the name of that school?
HART: It's Cottage now. I don't remember what it was then. [Ed.Note: The school was called Primary School, often known as the old high school while the high school was on South Maine.] It was a two-story red brick building.
AHERN: So, to both schools, you walked?
HART: I don't remember what grades that was. Yeah, we didn't have much vehicles. We had an old Studebaker touring car. I remember when we came out here. That must have about a 1926, maybe, 1927. Wooden spoke wheels. Quite a large… That's how Dad hauled his livestock and everything. (laughing)
AHERN: When you moved to town, describe the house.
HART: If it's the same one that we moved first to--I'm not certain about that, but it was a kind of a two-story house, and the house is still standing. Just a kind of a two-bedroom. Now, this is later on. When we first came to Fallon, it seems like we lived in a small cabin, too, somewhere, and I don't remember just where that was either. Anyway, this one that we walked to school from was a two-story and belonged to Mr. Getto out there. That's Bob Getto's dad. That was quite a cold jaunt, too, walking across those fields.
AHERN: When your parents moved into this house by the airport, did your dad still have a job with the construction company?
HART: I don't remember. The job that I remember him having was he worked for the Fallon Theater for a lot of years.
AHERN: In what capacity?
HART: Whatever they needed done. Janitorial, or he ran the theater when the boss was gone. Anything that needed to be done. Before that he worked in the slaughterhouse. They had a big slaughterhouse there out by Courtesy Corner on Stillwater [Avenue], and he worked there. That would have been some of the places when we first came back from Carroll Summit. Then we moved from place to place, and of course, we went out to that slaughterhouse and then we had plenty to eat out there 'cause they had the meat and everything out there.
AHERN: Your dad was butcher?
HART: Um-hum. In that capacity. He was a jack-of-all-trades. He did just about anything.
AHERN: Did your mother ever work outside the house?
HART: Um-hum. My stepmother? The people that had the slaughterhouse--their name was Albee, and she worked cleaning house for Mrs. Albee, and he worked for Mr. Albee in the slaughterhouse as I recall.
AHERN: They were the owners of the slaughterhouse?
HART: Right.
AHERN: Do you recall their first names?
HART: No, I don't. I know one of the boy's name was Gordon Albee. I remember that, I don’t… I know he was quite a large man. I remember that, and he had a very nice house. Their house was right over here on Allen Street, in fact. That's where they lived.
AHERN: Again, when you had the house by the airport, did your parents have any farm animals or a garden?
HART: They used to have a pig, and I think they had some chickens, also, but you know in those days you couldn't go and buy the grain and everything for the pigs, so they made arrangements with the restaurants that were here to pick up their garbage and what have you. If they did get some grain, it was all cooked together, and that's what they fed them. I remember this old sow we had, Red, Dad used to take the seat out of the back of that old touring car and tell her to get in there, and she'd go right into that old car to be moved. (laughing)
AHERN: Where would he move her?
HART: I shouldn't say this on the tape, took her to see her boyfriend and bring her back. She got pretty good. She knew what she was doing. Always had enough little pigs. (laughing)
AHERN: Did your dad do his own butchering?
HART: Yeah, he did that.
AHERN: Did you help him?
HART: Not if I could help it. I tried to avoid that. I don't think he ever gave them a name, and that helped. But, no, we didn't help much. He did most of that.
AHERN: What were your chores?
HART: Well, I always gettin' in wood. They always had something for me to do. Lot of times I had to dig a hole, and when I got that one dug, I had to put the dirt back in that one and dig one where the dirt was. He kept me pretty busy. So, that's all I know is work. That's all we learned.
AHERN: What was your impression of the school here compared to Brown's Station?
HART: Complete new different life altogether.
AHERN: Did you have to do any adjusting?
HART: Quite a bit. Oh, yeah. The kids were different. We probably had more adjusting to do when we came into the city school than the city adjusted to us.
AHERN: What are some of the adjustments you had to make?
HART: Well, I had quite a time with recesses when I first came back because every time the bell rang, I went home. (laughing) A little different out there. But the kids were all different, and it took me a little while to get used to them.
AHERN: Different, how?
HART: Well, they dressed different. They had pretty good clothes compared to us, so we just kind of moved along with the flow and gradually changed our ways, too, so it all worked out.
AHERN: Did you have any problems when you first came to school with the kids getting used to you?
HART: Well, yeah. We had quite a few scuffles around.
AHERN: Was it just because you dressed differently?
HART: Kind of. You know how kids are. They tease each other and make jokes and what have you. That kind of rolled off my back, too. I didn't pay too much attention to that. But, we got used to each other and then everything went smooth.
AHERN: When you moved into town, that was during part of the Depression years, did you see any signs of real economic depression here in Fallon?
HART: It was real bad. It really was. Nobody had any money, and Dad'd go out and work at different places, and maybe at the end of the day they paid him off in milk and eggs and whatever. He had several jobs like that. I recall one time, they had the staple foods, flour, sugar, and things like that, they gave that away at the courthouse which still stands on the corner of Maine and Williams. I remember a line there. I went with him. It was cold, and there was quite a line there waiting for staple food. But, you know, people seemed to be happy in those days. Probably as much or more so than they are today even though they had nothing. If one person had a horse, and the other guy had a wagon, they had a horse and wagon. That's the way it worked in Fallon. I don't think it'd be that way today. There's too much competition for everything today, but people got along pretty good during the Depression even though they had no money. The banks were broke. You'd go down, and you might work--you have to get wood to keep your house warm, so he just managed. I recall one time he worked on people's cars. You had to make parts for them. There were no parts houses, so they made the parts and put them in. At the end of the day, he says, "What do I owe you?" I remember Dad says, "Do you think fifty cents would be too much?" That's the way people survived.
AHERN: Was there any real poor section of town?
HART: The whole town was that way. Of course, it was much smaller than it is now. I don't remember what the population was at that time 'cause I didn't pay that much attention to it, but there was very few people. But they used to have their country get-togethers.
AHERN: Where were these country get-togethers held?
HART: Well, they had different schools out in the country, also, and they'd have their little dances for the adults, and then they'd have their lunches. Everybody'd bring something. I kind of enjoyed that, going along.
AHERN: At these country get-togethers, it wasn't just adults only?
HART: They brought the kids.
AHERN: The whole families? While the adults were busy socializing, what did the kids do?
HART: They'd play around with each other. I don't know. They didn't have all the things to play with that they have today, and, yet, I hear the kids today saying they don't have anything to do.
AHERN: These get togethers, when did it start and when did it end?
HART: They used to have these dances out in the country. I think most of them started about, oh, nine, something like that. Then they'd quit at midnight, and then they'd have their box lunches if the women decided that's what they wanted to do. Then they'd eat and maybe dance for another hour or so, and that was the end of it. They'd go home. About once a month.
AHERN: These were in the country schools?
HART: Um-hum
AHERN: Any specific place?
HART: They had one out at Stillwater, and they had one in the Old River area kind of northeast of Fallon. I don't think it's there any more, either. Then they had one out by Lahontan Dam. There was about four or five different schools, 'cause they went to school out in the country, and they only had one school in Fallon, or two, for all the kids.
AHERN: How did people find out about these dances?
HART: Most of it word of mouth. Somebody'd tell them. Or they'd set the date from the one to the other.
AHERN: Were there any special group that organized it, or did they just decided to get together?
HART: At the end of the one dance, why, then they'd probably have some sort of a committee appointed there, and then they would put the next one on, and that's just how they rotated.
AHERN: Were there any refreshments, and if so who supplied them?
HART: Well, the people themselves brought different things.
AHERN: Kind of like a potluck?
HART: Right.
AHERN: When you were going to school here in town, were there many Indian kids in school?
HART: There was quite a few. Of course, you had your reservations then, and you'd come to school--your adults came horse and buggy. Of course, the Indians weren't allowed to drink in those days. They had quite a few kids in school, and the ones that were in school, as I recall, were real talented people. Very athletically inclined and tough, I might add. They were just a good bunch.
AHERN: Did they ever come to any of the adult socials?
HART: I don't think so? As I recall, they didn't.
AHERN: Have you ever been on the reservation?
HART: I've been out there several times because I know quite a few of the people.
AHERN: Their homes, were they similar to what you had seen up in Brown's Station?
HART: Well, no. It was none of those. The tepee type? No. These were all, I might say, sheds. Kind of small shacks. They weren't big houses or anything in those days. Of course, since that time they have rebuilt all these houses and put new ones in.
AHERN: What were these homes made of?
HART: They were frame houses or metal siding or whatever they could find. Like I say, you're into the Depression again. Depression years, and people didn't have all the best material to build with, so whatever they could find. Just built them right on the ground. Railroad ties and what have you. But they weren't very prosperous people, either. They probably ate a lot of things that we wouldn't eat because of their not having the proper foods.
AHERN: Did you have any occasion to go through one of the homes?
HART: I probably have, but I can't recall. I never had any barriers as to people. They're all people as far as I was concerned.
AHERN: Was there a large population of Indians?
HART: Quite a few. I don't know what the percentage or proportion was, but there was quite a few. Stillwater area and Rattlesnake area there, they had quite a few. I think they walked, too, most of them, to school. Then when they started getting school buses, why, I think they still walked. Most of them.
AHERN: Tell me the schools that you attended when you came to Fallon. The first year. Your grade school.
HART: I think the first one, was that red brick two-story house off of Stillwater [Avenue]. It was a pretty big bunch of kids there.
AHERN: How many grades were taught there?
HART: I don't know exactly. Two or three, probably. I don't know. I remember Oats Park was to the eighth grade. We graduated from there into high school. That was the only school we had. Then they built the ones over here.
AHERN: And the high school was where?
HART: Was where the junior high school is now. [650 South Maine]
AHERN: When you graduated from high school, do you recall how many children graduated?
HART: I didn't graduate from high school. I only had about two years of high school when the War broke out.
AHERN: What year was that?
HART: This was in 1941, so I quit school and enlisted in the Navy
AHERN: What did your parents think about your quitting school?
HART: My parents? Well, my stepmother wasn't too happy, and my Dad, he said, "If he's big enough to go in the service, why . . ." so he signed. He had to sign for me to go in. I told him, I said, "If you're going to get killed, you're going to get killed walking across the street." I just felt that it was my place.
AHERN: Were there other boys in the same situation that decided to do what you did? You joined the Navy when you were seventeen?
HART: Right. Just right after my seventeenth birthday. I turned seventeen the seventeenth of December and was sworn in the twenty-first of December 1941.
AHERN: How many years did you spend in the Navy?
HART: Not quite four. I got out November 10, 1945. Just lacking a couple of weeks of being four years.
AHERN: Then you came back to Fallon?
HART: Right.
AHERN: When you came back to Fallon, what did you do?
HART: I looked around for a job, and, of course, jobs were pretty scarce then. The War was over and all the guys getting out of the service. I didn't do anything for quite a while. I took a little trip. Two or three of us and went to Colorado to look for a job. There wasn't anything there, either, so we came back. I finally found a job in a dry cleaning plant, so I stayed there until I had our own plant. Learned the business, and it was just one thing after another from there.
AHERN: Prior to your going into the service, your dad was still doing some odd jobs here and there.
HART: He was working in theaters, managing and what have you. He did that during the War, too, as I recall. He went down to Hawthorne and worked at the ammunition depot during the War. Fact is, I fired a lot of ammunition that he'd been crating down there in Hawthorne.
AHERN: What were the major businesses in town when you were in high school?
HART: The one we liked the best was a little drug store on Maine Street.
AHERN: Do you recall the name of that drug store?
HART: Morris and Loring Drug Store, and, let's see, where all the kids hung out, was Kick's Place.
AHERN: What type of place was that?
HART: Just a little restaurant type. It had booths and had soda fountain. Served meals and breakfast and all that stuff.
AHERN: How many casinos were in town then?
HART: They're all on Maine Street, and there was probably, I would say probably not real casinos, but just bars more than casinos. About four on Maine Street, five, maybe. Then they started going out the Reno Highway after that. Just on the west side of Maine Street there must have been five or six. Maybe more. I'd have to think, going back. Of course, people were different then. They rode horses inside and everything else. (laughing) Every once in a while you'd see a horse going into a bar. (laughing) That was kind of strange. They did all kinds of things in Fallon.
AHERN: What were some of the other businesses in Fallon? Did they have Sears?
HART: There was no Sears store. For years you had theaters and one dry cleaning plant there on Maine Street and Kolhoss Cash Store.
AHERN: Did they have two theaters?
HART: Later on they built the other one. On the Maine Street first and then the one down by the Dairy Queen. It was the Lahontan Theater.
AHERN: It was called Lahontan Theater?.
HART: Um-hum.
AHERN: And which one was this one?
HART: It was the Fallon Theater. The one on Maine Street, and then the other one was Lahontan. I think they called it Lahontan. Lawana! In fact, Dad managed that one. When I came home on leave, why, he was managing it. This newsreel came- [tape cuts out, end of tape 1]
AHERN: Now you mentioned you’d come home on leave and you were explaining about your father and this Newsreel?
HART: I'd gotten a fifteen-day leave and came home, and I was watching this news reel about, at the time, it was the Hornet, the air craft carrier, being attacked, and I was on a destroyer right alongside of it to protect it. There was two destroyers on each side, and I was telling him all about it. He kind of enjoyed that, so it was quite exciting. Of course, he'd been in the theater business for quite some time at that time, and he thought that was really something.
AHERN: Could you name all of the businesses that were in Fallon at that time?
HART: Well, as near as I can figure, we had no shortage of bars, and the gambling was spasmodic in the bars, but we never had any casinos, per se. We had probably five or six bars on the west side of Maine Street.
AHERN: Could you give me their names?
HART: We had the Esquire Club. We had the Corral Bar, the Star Club, the Barrel House, the Corner Bar, the Sagebrush, and the Horse Shoe Bar. There could be another one I missed. I don't know, but we had a good share of them.
AHERN: And the other business?
HART: Well, we had across the street--bars weren't allowed on the east side of the street. They all had to be on the west side.
AHERN: Was there any specific reason for them being on the west?
HART: It was just a city ordinance type thing. They tried to keep them all in one place. Across the street we had a Safeway store, Kolhoss Cash Store, we had a bank building there in the arcade bank. And then we had Kick's Place, a little restaurant. Then we had the drugstore, Morris and Loring, and Fallon Theater and the Federated Store on the very corner where the pawn shop is now. Louie Trigueiro managed that. His family.
AHERN: What did they sell at the Federated Store?
HART: Clothing, mostly. I don't think they had anything else but clothes. They had a Western Auto later on.
AHERN: Where was Western Auto?
HART: Western Auto was on South Maine. But this one little store, it used to be called a Piggly Wiggly store before I went in the Navy. I remember I worked there after school.
AHERN: This was auto parts?
HART: No, a grocery store. Piggly Wiggly grocery chain. They still have, I think, some places. Jack Sommers was the manager of that store. He'd save all the orders, and I was just barely sixteen. I'd take my old car down and deliver the groceries. But on the other end of town, then you had Kolhoss Cash Store and Bible's building. Jake Bible. Later on Palludan.
AHERN: What type of business was in the Bible building?
HART: I think it was clothing, too, if I'm not mistaken. It was right there on the corner of Maine and Stillwater. Jake Bible owned it. I think his son [Alan] later became a United States Senator. You still had quite a few businesses. We had one gas station across the street on Maine. On down we had a little Dew Drop Inn, a little restaurant, that was right next to the Lawana Theater. Then they had another little drive-in across the street where the VFW is now. There was a little drive-in there. That was about of the extent of the businesses on Maine Street.
AHERN: And then the other part?
HART: And then the other part went on down where the old post office was. [90 N. Maine] Of course, you had your courthouse, and then there was an apartment house right across from the old post office. Then across the street from that there used to be an old gas station, garage, and they sold cars and everything there, and a blacksmith shop. That's where all the horses got new shoes. And then Kent's, of course. They played a big part on Maine Street, too, 'cause of that big store they had there. Then the Truckee-Carson Irrigation District office was on Maine Street, too, right there next to the post office that's there now. They tore that out. Then your city water plant is there on the corner of Maine. Then years ago there was a lot of cabins and stuff across from the city water deal. I think they're all torn out now. But that was about the extent of your businesses on Maine Street. Those all changed through the years from one thing to another.
AHERN: Were there any businesses on Williams [Avenue] then?
HART: There was one garage. It's there now. It was a Buick dealership, I think, at that time. And there was a Chevron station and a garage across the street from that garage on Williams. Then there was a vacant lot. Right next to, I think it's A-1, well, there's a radio business there now, but right next to it which I think is Berney Real Estate used to be Dr. Sawyer's office many years ago. He's the only practicing doctor that we had here in Fallon.
AHERN: How many doctors were in town then?
HART: At that particular time we had Dr. Sawyer, and I think Dr. Wray came shortly after that. I think just two.
AHERN: And they were MDs?
HART: Dr. Sawyer was an MD. Dr. Wray I don't think was, but he lacked just a few credits. I don't remember what they call them.
AHERN: What about dentists?
HART: I don't even recall a dentist to tell you the truth in those days. They finally came. There was one dentist came. I think people mostly went to Reno for their dentistry work.
AHERN: How about a hospital?
HART: The hospital originally, before they built the old hospital that we have now, was on Auction Road. Then they built this one on North Taylor. I can't remember the years or the dates that it was built. But the one on Auction Road was there for quite some time. Even during the three Cs [Civilian Conservation Corps] camp when they had them here. The barracks buildings and stuff out there for the three Cs, but that was a hospital in those days.
AHERN: Tell me about the three Cs. What do you remember about that?
HART: I remember quite a few of our local fellows, after the three Cs were taken out--they did a lot of work on the [Lahontan] Dam and the ditches and stuff like that here. Their pay wasn't very good, but they had barracks set up for sleeping quarters and food and everything and clothing. They had good clothes to work in.
AHERN: Where were the barracks located?
HART: All of this was located where the stockman's Casino is now. [1560 West Williams Avenue] In that area. I think there was probably maybe three or four blocks of barrack buildings there.
AHERN: Were you ever involved with the three Cs?
HART: No, the only thing, I met some of the fellows--and they were very nice, through sports and what you have when I was in school. They stayed, a lot of them, because they liked Fallon.
AHERN: Do you remember the construction of the airfield in Fallon?
HART: The little airfield? I don't remember too much about that. They had another little airfield south of Fallon right where the Regional Park is now was a little airfield.
AHERN: Which park are you talking about?
HART: The recreation park, where the ag building is and all of that.
AHERN: On Sheckler Road?
HART: Um-hum. All of that in there. They had a little airfield there.
AHERN: Who used that airfield?
HART: Gene York was the owner.
AHERN: Was it military?
HART: No, this was civilian. We didn't have much military until the [Second World] War broke out, and they built the base.
AHERN: Do you remember anything about it?
HART: No. I learned to fly out there when I got back.
AHERN: The USGS, the geological people, had come out to Fallon looking for gas and oil leases. Do you remember anything about that?
HART: The Jones and Jewell Ranch many years ago, and that's where they started doing a lot of the exploration work out there.
AHERN: Was it one ranch or two?
HART: It was two people that owned the ranch, and they called it the Jones-Jewell Ranch.
AHERN: Where was this ranch located?
HART: It was about, I would say probably, before you get to the Schurz hill toward Hawthorne, and it was about seven miles, eight miles out there. It was a real large operation that they were drilling. And then this stock situation. They sold stock in it.
AHERN: So it sounds like they had found either gas or oil?
HART: I think they did. They were having trouble 'cause they got into tule gas, and they had to go deeper. They had quite a time. Of course, we were all hoping that they'd really hit it big. Get away from that dollar and fifty cent gas that they have now, but they never did hit it big that I can recall here. They drilled a lot of wells, and they had a lot of tule gas. The Jones Ranch there, they kind of enjoyed it because they made themselves a little compressor and ran it with tule gas. They don't have it now, but they did have it up until about two or three years ago. But I don't think they ever really found too much real oil here.
AHERN: When you said they used the tule gas, what did they use the gas for?
HART: They had it for cooking in their house. What they'd done is taken some kind of a little refrigeration compressor, and they ran that tule gas as a pump into the house, and they'd light it and use it to cook with. It was quite an operation they had going.
AHERN: Did they, the Jones-Jewell Ranch, use the tule gas very long?
HART: Oh, for years. A very long time.
AHERN: Were they the only ones doing that?
HART: That's the only ones that I can recall that actually used that tule gas to cook with. His name was Phil Jones. They had all kinds of equipment out there years ago. He run a little line into his house and used it for--I don't know, he might have used it for heating, but I don't think so. It was a low-grade gas is what it was. But that's something that I don't think too many people even realize that . . .
AHERN: There's nobody else tried it when they found out that it was working for them or try to tap into the tule gas?
HART: I don't think they did. I don't recall just what all it took, but, basically, it was all drilled on his ranch, so he managed to come out with that. But, I personally always believed that it was more or less a stock situation, a stock company, and they wanted to sell a lot of stock in it. That was my own personal opinion at the time. I don't think that there was really that much of a volume of gas down there, but they might of. They always hit gas before the oil anyway.
AHERN: Did the gas company ever try any other property?
HART: To my knowledge that was the only one. There was probably leases taken up on various properties throughout the whole county just like there is today with Standard Oil and all of those. They still lease property for oil rights.
AHERN: Do you recall any large natural disasters occurring in Fallon?
HART: Earthquakes. We had a bad one.
AHERN: What year was it?
HART: About 1950, 1951, I think, in that vicinity. [July 6, 1954]
AHERN: What had happened? Where were you? What were you doing?
HART: I'd just gotten back from Las Vegas. We were asleep, yeah, I remember when it hit.
AHERN: That happened in early morning hours?
HART: Early morning, urn-hum. Fact is, I went right through the window. (laughing) The screen. It was hot. We had the window open, and it just kind of fit in with my service time. I was dreaming, and I just went head first right out the screen. The daughter's bike was there. I managed to clear that, but then I saw all these people running around in their B.V.D.s, (laughing) But that was quite an earthquake. Some of the buildings as a result of it had to be torn down in Fallon.
AHERN: Was anyone hurt?
HART: Not to my knowledge.
AHERN: It was just structural damage?
HART: Right. The stores and stuff were knocked off the shelves, and then just one building there where the parking lot for the Nugget is now was a block building, natural stone. I helped tear that one down because it was condemned because you could take your foot and push the wall out, but that had to come down. I don't think it centered right here in Fallon. I think it was Dixie Valley where it centered, but it was pretty bad.
AHERN: Did it do any damage to your house?
HART: No. My house was a frame house, and they say now that the best thing to do is just stand in a doorway under an archway or something. I know when I was a kid when we first came to Fallon, I remember seeing an earthquake. Happened to be we got outside in the orchard, and you could see the ground rolling just like a wave of ground about at least four feet high. It was amazing! That was the first one that I'd ever seen. I was quite small then, but it was amazing to me to watch that ground roll in waves.
AHERN: This was when?
HART: This was in the thirties when we first came out here. I would say probably 1931.
AHERN: And at that time, did it do a lot of damage?
HART: It didn't do much damage at all. There were no two-story buildings or anything in Fallon at that time, and there was hardly any damage that could be done. I'm sure there were some cracks and stuff like that maybe, but as far as any structural damage that I can't remember any. Of course, I was pretty young then, too. It was a pretty good-sized quake. If you was ever on the ocean and watch the waves go like that, that's the way the ground was.
AHERN: There used to be other businesses, like a sugar beet factory, a turkey operation. Do you recall anything about those?
HART: Yes, I did. The turkeys, they were supposedly some of the best turkeys in the world. They were shipped to everybody, even the President. As I recall, the Graham family is the one that raised most of those turkeys out in Stillwater area, and the sugar beet factory, it was still mostly standing there by Rattlesnake Hill. I used to have a business that was built with the sugar beet factory blocks, which was Valley Distributing Company. It had twelve inch walls, and they were all built by those gray tannish brick that was built by the sugar beet factory. But the turkeys were fabulous. Everybody loved those turkeys, and they shipped them all over the world. I can't recall why they quit.
AHERN: Did you have occasion to taste one of them?
HART: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure we did. Yes. There's still some of the Graham people in Fallon.
AHERN: You mentioned the Valley Distributing Company. Was it your business?
HART: My dad and I went into that business. We bought it in 1955, and we stayed in it for eighteen years.
AHERN: And what kind of business was it?
HART: It was distribution of beer. Of course, we handled a little of everything, frozen food, ice cream, ice, janitorial supplies, all of that, and paper goods. We had quite a number of items. We delivered all over this part of the state, and we sold out in 1972. But it was quite an operation.
AHERN: Did you go into any organizations?
HART: I'm a life member of the VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars], and I'm a life member of the Lions. This is my thirty-sixth year in Lions. A ten-year member of the Eagles. I was active in the Chamber of Commerce for several years and the director. Bowling. I'm in that quite a . . .
AHERN: Tell me about the Lions Club. Tell me a little bit about the history, how and why it was formed.
HART: Well, your Lions Club is . . . basically, it's for sight and community work. It's a non-profit wonderful organization, and they do a tremendous amount of good throughout the whole United States. You could put it all on tape and it'd cover the world, I think, the things that they do in the communities.
AHERN: Could you tell me some of the major things they've done for Fallon?
HART: Years ago we built the little softball park over here. The girls' softball park. We planted the lawn that was over there on North Maine Street. We planted the lawn at the old hospital over here many years ago.
AHERN: When you say the hospital, that would be on North Taylor?
HART: Yes, the one on Taylor Street. Then we planted trees out at the cemetery. The latest thing we did is the Oats Park Arts building now. They've been doing a lot of work down there, and they had this quite a large planter, and so we went over and dug that all up. We spent, I think, over a thousand dollars for trees and shrubs. Last Thursday we planted those. And then glasses is another thing we buy for the needy people. Mostly seniors and people that can't afford them.
AHERN: Where does the funding come from?
HART: From our different--well, like our rodeo that we put on.
AHERN: Are you sponsors of the Fallon rodeo?
HART: Yes, ma'am. Junior rodeo. We used to sell brooms. Just what ever we could do to make enough money to put it back into the community. I don't how much we spend for glasses now, but it's a tremendous amount of money for examinations and glasses. It all goes back into the community. It's just things that you could not do as an individual, and that's the reason I joined Lions because there's more you can do with the volume of people. I enjoy helping people.
AHERN: Could you tell me a little bit on your personal life? When and where did you marry, and who did you marry?
HART: I have a wife. We were married forty-eight years ago. I don't know how she managed to stay with me all these years. It's a long time.
AHERN: Would you give me her full name?
HART: It's Viola Rose Hart.
AHERN: What was her maiden name?
HART: Viola Rose Grimm. It's a good Irish name, right? (laughing)
AHERN: Where were you married?
HART: We went to get married in Virginia City, and the justice of the peace was not there, so we went into Carson City, and we got married [April 15, 1949] in Carson City.
AHERN: Do you have any children?
HART: We have the boy.
AHERN: His name, please?
HART: Michael William [Hart, born 1959], and a stepdaughter.
AHERN: And her name?
HART: Toni Kay Dickinson. Of course, she's not living here now. She's in California. Got six grandchildren and one great grandchild.
AHERN: Well, Mr. Hart, can you remember anything else that I may have forgotten to ask you that you would like to tell me about Fallon?
HART: I say it's changed so much. It really has. It's just not the same town anymore. I can say that. I mean, there's probably a lot of things we could go on through, but I think you've about covered it.
AHERN: On behalf of the Churchill County Museum, thank you for letting me interview you.
HART: My pleasure.
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